More than 2 out of 3 college students today are not coming straight out of high school. Half are financially independent from their parents, and 1 in 4 are parents themselves.David Scobey says that, as an American studies and history professor at the University of Michigan for decades, he was "clueless" about the needs of these adult students.But then, in 2010, he became a dean at The New School, a private college in New York City, heading a division that included a bachelor's degree program designed specifically for adults and transfer students."Those students schooled me about their needs and how poorly they were supported by higher ed," he says. "I was inspired by their resilience."You'll hear a reasonable amount of discussion about "new traditional" students today. But the common assumption — in Washington at least — seems to be that they require more vocational education to fill a "skills gap," particularly in STEM or technical fields. Or that they need quicker, cheaper paths to a degree.Scobey's prescription is different. Since 2014, when he left The New School, he has been listening to adult learners to find out their aspirations. And what they've told him is that they tend to thrive on the same kinds of high-quality learning opportunities that all college students do: small seminars, capstone projects, internships, a broad liberal arts curriculum.He argues that teaching adults this way might be the most practical approach, and that they are actually less expensive to serve than traditional students.Now Scobey is helping to convene a national network of innovative colleges, both new and old, that serve adult learners with much success: He calls it the Great Colleges for the New Majority.He spoke via email to NPR about where adult learners fit into "the democratic mission of higher education," and he included quotes from his ongoing interviews with some of these learners themselves. Our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.President Trump doesn't talk much about higher education, but when he does he endorses vocational education. In the words of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, the field needs to evolve toward "industry-recognized certificates, two-year degrees, stackable credits, credentials and licensures, badges, micro-degrees, apprenticeships."What's wrong with this thinking in your mind? What's missing? You've asked a complicated question here. Let me break it down into a couple of answers.The first thing wrong with this thinking is that it prioritizes the (immediate, changing) needs of the labor market over the needs and aspirations of adult students themselves. But if you ask incoming adult community college students about their educational aspirations, more than 70 percent want to get a bachelor's or beyond.But even setting aside the question of students' aspirations, something else is wrong with the "skills gap" model of workforce training.The problem finding good hires is actually a jumble of different realities. In some sectors (for instance, advanced, digitally driven manufacturing), innovation has outpaced training, and there is truly a shortage of technically skilled workers. Higher ed needs to work with employers and government in these targeted sectors to fill a real "skills gap."In other sectors, employers complain they can't find workers with communications, problem-solving and other soft skills. The solution to that is more liberal learning, not more technical workforce training.In still other sectors, employers can't meet their needs because of wage stagnation, part-timing, abusive scheduling and other workplace problems. Their "skills" gap is actually a "wage and workplace gap."And lurking over all of this is the ongoing juggernaut of automation. Many of the jobs for which workplace training programs prepare adults will disappear in the next five to 10 years. Employers will replace them as soon as it makes financial sense.Often workers and adult learners understand this perfectly. One UAW veteran told me — after attaining his bachelor's — that most of the retraining programs were a scam: "They train union members for fewer and fewer jobs. A couple years later, it's the same thing all over again."You talk about a "narrative of personal transformation" that's important to these students. Why?As I noted above, job security and economic success are key goals of college for nearly all students, young and old. But students also see college as a journey of personal growth, a way of laying claim to their lives.For most nontraditional students, this dimension of "self-authoring" (in the words of psychologist Marcia Baxter Magolda) is not less crucial, but even more. They often feel that they have failed in some way the customary narrative of high-school-to-college that defines successful adulthood."I always felt less-than," I was told by Wendy, a returning student in Washington State and a staffer at a wildlife center. "I feel like an impostor. Coming here has helped me find my voice. It helps me move through the world."Melissa, a graduate of an adult bachelor's program in Rhode Island, also stresses the journey of personal transformation: "As a kid, no one ever even mentioned college in my world," she told me in an interview.